LionessParamount+’s hit military drama from creator Taylor Sheridan stars Zoe Saldaña as Joe, a CIA agent in charge of the eponymous Lioness program, which places covert operators in a position adjacent to dangerous targets with the ultimate goal of eliminating some one of the most dangerous in America. enemies. Season 1, set mainly in the Middle East, featured Laysla De Oliveira as the titular Lioness. For the show’s sophomore outing, the setting shifts to the U.S.-Mexico border, with Joe’s latest candidate Lioness (played by Genesis Rodriguez), who is forced to go rogue to infiltrate a powerful drug cartel run by his own estranged family.
Jill Wagner plays Bobby, one of the QRF (Quick Response Force) operators who serves as the Lioness’ “boots on the ground” support. While fans of the wacky physical game show Destroy might be Wagner’s name familiar, as she co-hosted that ABC series alongside John Anderson and John Henson, she’s almost unrecognizable in Lioness. Bobby is a certified badass with a body that would make even the most committed Cross-Fit enthusiast blush, not to mention his tactical skills with every type of firearm in existence.
TelaRant interviewed Jill Wagner about her work on Lionessas well as his pivotal role in helping create the show in the first place. She delves into several aspects of the series, from the intense physical training she and the rest of the cast endured to get into Level One shape, to having to get into character to avoid being bullied by co-star Nicole Kidman. She talks about the show’s LGBTQ appeal and shares how important Lioness is to her on a deeply personal level when it comes to her life and career.
Jill Wagner on her physical transformation for Lioness season two
“It took me two years to get to the point where you would see me in season two.”
Screen Rant: I literally watched the entire first season in one day.
Jill Wagner: It goes by quickly, right?
The whole time I didn’t even recognize you ’cause I used to watch Destroy all the time and I was like… Oh!
Jill Wagner: That’s not her. (Laughter) Yes. I mean, that’s a huge compliment, actually. Thanks. Because when I was discussing with Taylor about my character and what he was like, he wanted to make sure that… That was his goal. He wanted to show me in a totally different light and create a totally new version of me as an actress. And I think we achieved that entirely by… It’s either good or bad, but we achieved our goal.
You’ve always been a fit person, but have you always been a workout girl? Because you are an idiot.
Jill Wagner: No, no. And I actually have a role in Homestead, a show I just finished filming. So I had to lose all my weight for this, because I play a pregnant therapist and it just wasn’t, it wasn’t right for the role. It took me two years to get to the point where you’ll see me in season two. This took me two years of eating my way and working hard for two hours a day, almost every day. I would take a day here and there, but only with complete and utter dedication to a level I have never experienced.
I wanted to look like the CrossFit girls, right? I was like, “Oh my God, this is what I wanted.” And then I understood how difficult it is and how dedicated you have to be. And it’s almost like a second job. I don’t know if I achieved it… I reached my goal, but I certainly tried, and it’s not something I can maintain for the rest of my life, but for Bobby, I do it. It was not a “sacrifice”. It was really challenging to see if I could actually do it and what my body would do.
You’re more excited about Season 2 than Season 1, right?
Jill Wagner: Yes. For the first season, I won’t say I didn’t know what I was doing, but I didn’t understand what I wanted it to be. My goal was, I was thinking, did I want her to look like Pink? Like, you know, really strong. So for me, my body, I was trying to make these gains because I’m naturally this delicate kind of person. As if it had been like this my whole life. My father called me Olive Oyl. This is how I am naturally. And I wanted to really turn up the volume. So I gained volume, but what I didn’t do was never cut. Therefore, I never cut anything from the volume. And that’s why I didn’t see the muscle definition as I wanted. So in season two I really focused on my diet and bulking up.
In the end, I think Duffy, my coach while I was in Texas, had me do bent over rows weighing, like, 90 pounds. I mean, I reached 30 pounds. So that shows how much stronger I got just by… To be honest with you, it was part of my diet and I was very regimented about it. I ate a sirloin and a half every day at 5pm. I do not recommend this! I don’t recommend this. That’s exactly what I was doing while filming Lioness. I didn’t think I could eat one meal a day and actually sustain my workouts, but you can. It’s a totally different way of life. So, Jill from the farm, I’m really happy with my Krispy Kreme donuts, my bacon, and everything else that I didn’t really eat when I was filming.
Jill Wagner had a hand in her lioness character’s fabulous haircuts — and the show’s existence
“My whole life I’ve had long hair, so now that’s just part of the fun of the character.”
Yes. I want to talk a little more about the different aspects of your character, but also relate it to the creation of this show. I think a lot of people don’t know how involved you are in the day-to-day running of the program or even the fact that it exists. Can you find a way to tell this story while integrating your character’s amazing haircuts?
Jill Wagner: (Laughs) The idea for Lioness, or the beginning, actually happened on this farm in Tennessee. My husband and I were near the campfire. We had a bottle of whiskey, I’m not going to lie. And I was just complaining about the fact that I was in my forties. I was like, “I feel like there’s so much more I haven’t done. I could give the industry another version of myself, but I will never be able to do that because I am at my limit.” And my husband said, “What are you talking about?” He was like, well, “What do you want to do?” And I thought, “I want to play someone in the military because I come from a long line of military people and my husband is in the military.” And he said, well, “Why don’t you create something?” I said, “What do you mean? How am I going to do this?” He said, “Your husband is in the military, why don’t you ask me some questions?”
It all started that night, with me asking a lot of questions about… he’s in MI, in military intelligence. So he was telling me about the women he worked with and his field and that they were exceptional. And then he started telling me about a group of women called Lionesses. And I thought, “Is this real? I’ve never heard of this.” It all started from there. And the fact that I’ve known Taylor Sheridan since I was in my early twenties because he was my acting coach, I don’t think that was a coincidence. I think I was supposed to have this relationship so I could tell him this story and say, “Look, do you want to get involved?” Because to be honest with you, he was the only person I wanted to write this for, because he has a really strong voice and he writes so raw, and I feel like this world demands that.
Especially women, if we wanted to tell this through a woman’s lens, it had to have that rawness. It had to be that every time I talked to military women, I understood. I didn’t want to see Barbies with guns. I didn’t want to see, you know, this movie version of whatever people thought it was. I wanted to see reality and he does it perfectly. We brought it to him and the rest is history.
And as far as Bobby’s haircuts go, it’s funny because I couldn’t find Bobby. I couldn’t. I was working out. I still had my long hair. I was like, “Who is this character?” I just didn’t see her. I didn’t see her and I was getting a little worried because we were getting close to filming. We were probably about a month and a half out. And I went to cut my hair. Then, as soon as I looked in the mirror, I thought, “There she is.” She doesn’t exist with long hair. Bobby will never have long hair. In case anyone wants to know, she will never have long hair. And it was a great thing! Like, it was a huge thing.
People who followed me, many of them didn’t like it. And a lot of them had a lot of really cruel things to say. Fortunately, I have very thick skin. I was raised by my father and he kind of told me what it was like. And I’ve spent the last 20 years in an industry that either tries to destroy you or is just honest about some things and you kind of have to accept that. I love the way it has evolved. I mean, I’m already thinking, oh my God, what else do I want to do? Because I did that mullet and rat tail thing, which I’m digging. And now I’m like, oh my God, she, I don’t know… Does she like being completely bald? Does she shave one side? I think once you do that as a woman, now it’s like, you know, whatever! I don’t call! All my life I’ve had long hair, so now that’s just part of the fun of the character.
Mohican!
Jill Wagner: Well, we wanted to do that in the first season. I kind of left it a little longer. And then in Season 2, we started doing the mullet mohawk. And then I grew this rat tail. I mean, literally, it’s your own character. (Laughter) It keeps evolving into this thing. And now it’s fun for me. My husband is a little nervous. He’s like, ‘What’s going on with my wife?’ But I say, “Look, this is not your wife. This is Bobby.” We have to go back and forth.
It’s fun! I’ve always had really long hair, like Jesus. And now, like, every year or so, I go to the barbershop and I’m like all this. And the barber even asks: “Are you sure?”
Jill Wagner: You don’t think it’s interesting because it’s just hair, but it kind of creates a vibe, right? And there’s something that that adds, for me. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, but it added a little more swagger and brought out that side of me that’s a little spicier. And like I said, whether that’s good or bad, it’s just different. I think personally, if you have long hair, whether male or female, you should cut it once in your life or do the opposite. Right? If you only have short hair, let it grow. I think just changing a little bit is interesting, especially for women, because we hide behind our hair, you know?
Jill Wagner Praises Lioness’ Queer Fanbase (and Allies Who Like the Show)
“Whether they were gay or not, we were just trying to cast characters that were representative of the culture itself.”
I love all the characters and I love how this fabulous queer fanbase has developed. Whenever a guy hits one of these characters, there’s at least a 50% chance he’s going to get punched in the neck.
Jill Wagner: Yes. (laughs)
Was that something you knew? Like, “The gays are going to love this!” Or was it a side effect? Because with the military theme it’s like Call to action with feminism.
Jill Wagner: Well, I’ll tell you something. Taylor and I, and my husband, we all wanted it to be a representation of what women go through in the military. Obviously, he created a cinematic feel with the CIA and the Lioness and everything. But I know a lot of women in the military, and that doesn’t mean they’re all gay, because they absolutely aren’t. But I know a lot of them who are. And I think, whether they were gay or not, we were just trying to cast characters that were representative of the culture itself. I don’t necessarily know that Cruz started out gay, right? Like, it just happened. And I think that’s honest… That probably happens a lot because you’re around these girls and you’re like, “Wow, they’re amazing.” Do you know what I mean? Like, I’m sure some people have transitioned.
Bobby always told me she would be bisexual, and she would be a bit of a bitch about where she went with that. Personally, I hope Bobby never ends up with anyone! I just want Bobby to go kill bad guys. That’s all I want. Like, I’ve had enough of my film career making me passionate and emotional. I love playing Bobby because she’s not emotional. She compartmentalizes, she’s so focused. Now, that’s not to say she doesn’t have her moments. I think Bobby has his moments behind closed doors. I think you’ll probably never see her get emotional unless the camera goes into that quiet place with her. It’s not built like that. And I know a lot of people who are built like that. I am one of those people. I think it’s great the way Taylor just weaved this.
But in the first season, it was such an honest relationship that, to be honest with you, I didn’t even think it was a gay thing. It was like, these two people are falling in love and she’s going to have a really bad situation and a decision to make. And I think that was the beauty of the writing, it kind of surpasses anything that anyone was feeling like, “Oh my God, these are two women, or “Oh my God, this is whatever.” , she will have to make a horrible decision right now! She’s going to have to kill this girl’s father!” Do you know what I mean? I hope people see it that way.
I never wanted to explore anything. This is very important to me and Taylor feels the same. So I, just doing my research with Bobby, I had a lot of people to turn to in the military. I talked to a lot of lionesses, I talked to a lot of military women, I did my homework and then I took them all and mashed them all together. And that’s what I felt Bobby should be, a little bit of all those people. And the toothpick is for my dad because my dad always rolls with a toothpick. My whole life. He’s just poking his teeth with a toothpick. And I thought, what do I do to honor my father? A little something, a little Easter egg, we call it. Something we can look at and say, is a little salute to my father.
My best friend is a lady in her early 60s, and she wouldn’t normally do this… She doesn’t like action or military stuff. And when I told her I was doing it, she said, “Oh, I watched that whole show!” And I said, “You? Really?”
Jill Wagner: Which is great! So many women have come up to me and, look, I want everyone to love it. I want men, women, everyone, especially our military because that’s the heart behind this. But for my husband and I, I keep saying this, but it was our love letter to the military. It was my way of saying thank you, in private. But I love it, because I have a lot of women coming up to me and saying, “We don’t normally watch this kind of thing, but it’s so good.” The stories are so good. And, and I think the acting, I mean, I’m sitting there with my mouth open, watching the scene where I’m watching Zoe and watching Nicole and watching all the brilliant actors doing their thing. And it’s like, Oh my God, this feels so good. You know? Everyone is so tied to their own characters, and it just works. It works on screen and off too. I hang out with these cats every weekend when we’re filming. I mean, we destroyed the White Elephant in Fort Worth.
Jill Wagner had to get into character to avoid feeling intimidated by Nicole Kidman
“I don’t know if it’s easy for Nicole to play Kaitlyn, because Nicole is so warm. And when we see Kaitlyn, she is cold as ice.”
I’m trying to think if you have scenes with Nicole…
Jill Wagner: Yes, I did in Season 1. I have a few, but in Season 1, it wasn’t just me and her, but we were sitting on the plane and I’m explaining it to them. I remember when I was doing that scene because I was so nervous. Oh my God. It was the first time I looked at her, but I have to remember that it’s not Jill looking at her, but rather Bobby. Bobby doesn’t give a shit.
And that really helps me, because I really am her when I’m in those scenes. I’m fully invested. And as soon as there’s “Action,” there’s something where I can look at Nicole Kidman in that moment as Bobby. To Jill, I would say, “Yes, ma’am. Yes, yes, ma’am.” But that’s the beauty of finding these characters and playing something so different from anything I’ve ever played. I’m able to really dive in, and she’s a really fun character to play. It’s a true gift that Taylor gave me.
While we’re talking about Nicole, can you suggest if maybe we could see her fight this season? I really want to see her and Michael Kelly side by side.
Jill Wagner: You know, Kaitlyn is a very interesting character to me because there’s a side of her that we don’t see, and I’m very interested in that side. We see Kaitlyn, it’s very… I don’t know if it’s easy for Nicole to play Kaitlyn, because Nicole is very warm. And when we see Kaitlyn, she’s cold as ice, but it’s those moments, those glimpses that I think you’ll get this season that you didn’t get last season. You see she is human and there is a heart there. There is a heart.
She is definitely warmer to her husband, who was also very cold in the first season.
Jill Wagner: Yes. You can see where Joe and her husband could go, so that’s what I think Taylor wanted to show. Probably where Kaitlyn and her husband started is where Neal and Joe are now. And that’s where it goes and what happens to these people, and that’s the truth. Having a job like this and knowing some of the things that they know and having to make these decisions and make these decisions, it must make you desensitized in some way. And you sacrifice, whether it’s your life, or your home life, or your sanity, all these people sacrifice.
I think, for me, if anyone can take anything away from these shows, it’s to show the sacrifice that these men and women make. I keep saying this over and over in interviews, but you know, behind the magic curtain, there’s a team of people who risk their lives every day, making these decisions so we can go to the grocery store and buy milk, or go to the local church. , or dropping your kids off at school, or walking in the park, or doing any of the things that we take for granted or that we think are just normal life. There are so many dangers and so many important decisions that we don’t see, and so many people who don’t get a thank you.
But watching this show, you really remember all the heavy decisions and the people running and getting in front of a bullet you don’t see. And I think that’s what we should all remember. And I love these people. I love each one of them. I never saw your faces, but this is my love letter to thank you. And I see you. I see you. You know, in a way.
Lioness makes her stars endure rigorous military training
“These weapons are so heavy and we use real weapons! You didn’t take the plastic ones, the lightweight ones.”
You absolutely, you know, dedicate yourself to the work. You talked about training just in terms of taking your body and turning it into Bobby’s body. But tell me about the military training. Have you ever shot guns before? I mean, you have a military husband, of course…
Jill Wagner: Yes. More than that, a military father! So my dad put me behind a gun when I was really young. I have my own gun collection. I think I have more guns than my husband, actually. But I target shoot and… I don’t hunt because I love animals too much to do that. But my dad’s collection is kind of… It’s funny because he calls me and says, “Hey, I bought this gun. Do you want to buy it?” And I thought, “Dad, are you making money from me now?” So, it’s like, because it’s in his collection and I’ve been there, it’s nostalgic and it’s just a piece of our family history. Sure, I’ll buy from him, but I’m like, ‘How much money are you making from me a year selling your old stuff?’ (Laughter) But he was a Marine and he taught me.
The things you see Bobby do with Lioness and everyone else is a whole different skill set. That’s the Operator’s thing. This is, you know, Delta Force. I didn’t know anything about that. Taylor is amazing. He brought in several counselors who would come in and really guide us through the challenge. It’s almost like a school, in a sense. Like, a month of training. And we would just train. We clean houses. We were, you know, rolling around in the dirt. I mean, it was everything. Weapons training.
It’s really important to Taylor that people don’t get hung up on things like, “Wow, that doesn’t seem real.” Then, suddenly, they drop out of the story. He wants his actors to have the tools and that’s the beauty of working for him. He gives you the tools, you know, and that takes money! So not every program can hire all these special operations people to show us what we’re doing. But he’s great like that. And he allows us to do this. And, uh, and he teaches us, and that’s amazing. It’s incredible. It’s just another skill I have in my tool belt.
Training goes a long way. There are so many actors you see playing these action tough guys, and every time they shoot, they blink and wince and look away. And it’s like, you should know how to do this!
Jill Wagner: Oh, it drives me crazy. The trigger finger drives me crazy. I’m like, “finger discipline, trigger discipline.” I was like, no, no, no, don’t do that. But you know, those are the things I look for now. I judge constantly. I try not to watch things like that because it ruins everything. But it’s a gift on my team. I have to tell you, QRFs are amazing. Um, they’re really, really good. And every one of these actors participated, they said, ‘Whatever you need us to do. How many hours do you need us to train?’ I just love them for that, because not every actor is like that.
As a weapons enthusiast playing this level one person, did you have the opportunity to incorporate your favorite weapons? Or was it like, “You have to use this because these are the rules?”
Jill Wagner: No. Taylor chooses everything. So he’s very practical, he wants us to have the latest and greatest and the things that are currently being used. So he’s the final word when it comes to all of this and he knows his weapons very, very well. Um, so that’s where the buck stops. He chooses all these things. He is very involved.
Do you have a specific favorite that you’d like to wear at home and that you’d like to see Bobby wear?
Jill Wagner: I have a Kimber Raptor 45, that is, which is a gun and it’s like… I’m so bad because I’m like, “Oh, it’s really pretty.” My husband is like, “Oh God…” I’m like, “Oh my God, I love the colors.” (Laughs) I’m still a girl when it comes to that! Yeah, I mean, I love that gun, but I don’t think she would ever use it. I mean, Bobby takes it to another level.
By the way, speaking of those weapons, they are so heavy and we use real weapons! You didn’t get the plastic ones, the lightweight ones. I mean, we were actually hauling this stuff around. I stretched my arms a lot. My arms are pretty strong, but after the sixth take, holding them for so long, I was burning up. It’s no easy task. I was begging, “For season three, if there is one, can we get some lighter weapons?” And of course Taylor says, “No!”
But in open planes no one will notice the difference if it’s an AirSoft, right?
Jill Wagner: Yes. Yes… I’ll tell you that. It makes everything real for you. You know… I can’t wait for you guys to see the ending. But it’s in these scenes that you’re having these battles. And I mean, you’re there. Like, you feel like you’re really there, and I can’t imagine what it would be like if someone was actually shooting at you. You know, the only joy is that you’re acting and you know you’re not going to die and you’re able to, you know, (holds up air quotes) “have fun” with simulated play. You feel like you’re a kid playing Cowboys & Indians. But I don’t know how people do it. And they do this every day. So these are the people who are my heroes.
What the future holds for the Lioness and reflections on the program’s cinematic grandeur
“It’s movies. It’s eight movies, that’s right. It’s bigger than your TV screen.”
Season 1 was focused on the Middle East and Season 2 seems to be so far very focused on Mexico and the cartels. Do you imagine each season having a different region and a different criminal theme?
Jill Wagner: I mean, obviously these are conversations, you know, to have with Taylor. But I think so. That’s what I think would be really interesting for the show. There are a million things that… I mean, that’s it, this show could go on forever because there’s a long list of things that you could, you could do. But I think ultimately it will come down to: do we have the budget?
It looks like you hit the budget on season two.
Jill Wagner: Damn. I mean, what a great show. I will say this because I was able to see two episodes in one theater. They need to be seen in a theater! They are films. There are eight films, is what it is. It’s bigger than your TV screen. I mean, I love that people can watch it in their homes, but seeing it in the theater is so explosive and incredible. I wish there was a way. But I don’t know.
When the helicopter appeared in the first episode of Season 2, I thought, “Can they afford that?” I don’t think about these things when I’m watching a show, I try to get all my behind-the-scenes knowledge out of my mind, but this was so cool that I was like, “Wow, good for them!”
Jill Wagner: It was really cool to be there and hear that. And, like, boom, this is all really happening. I’m a big fan. I’m in the scene, but I’m thinking, “Oh my God, I wish I could take out my phone and record this!” (Laughter) So I can watch it over and over again.
They have people doing it!
Jill Wagner: Yes, but it’s amazing. I forgot, because I’m a huge fan of the show. And being able to be such an important part of that is the highlight of my career. Not just because it’s the subject that it is, but because I was at a point in my life where I was, like, I don’t know, about to give up. And it’s that reminder to myself. And then I will remind my daughters, who will at some point reach their 40s. I have to remind people that this happens. You can make this happen. But you have to dig deeper. You have to dig deep and say, “No. You know what? I’m not listening to the voices in my head. I’m not listening to society telling me I’m this or I’m not, I’m digging and I’m going to hustle,” and that’s exactly what I did .
I fought for 20 years. My career has been a lot of turmoil. And you know what? I love that. I don’t regret for a second having spent most of my career without an agent. It just means I made it all happen and I’m very proud of that. Could I have made a better decision and gotten an agent? (Laughs) Probably! But I’ve worked really hard for 20 years, and it’s been really good, and it’s been really enjoyable and fun, and I’ve met the coolest people, so I have absolutely no regrets about my career. It was baby steps, and then steps back, and baby steps up, and it’s all over the map.
More about Lioness Season 2
As the CIA’s fight against terrorism comes closer to home, Joe (Saldaña), Kaitlyn (Kidman) and Byron (Kelly) recruit a new agent Lioness to infiltrate a previously unknown threat. With pressure mounting from all sides, Joe is forced to confront the profound personal sacrifices he has made as leader of the Lioness program.
Check out our others Lioness interviews here:
Source: Screen Rant Plus