For the first time in decades, Jack Kirby's iconic creations returned to star in their own series in New Gods. Fans went wild at this year's San Diego Comic-Con with the revelation that DC Comics would be releasing a new New Gods series as part of its All In initiative.
As seen in DC everything specialthe villain Darkseid is dead, and his death had major consequences for the DC Universe. Screen Rant sat down with New Gods' creative team to discuss their series and discover what's next for the Fourth World as this new chapter in DC Comics history continues.
Screen Rant: Ram, DC All In began with Darkseid's death during the Everything specialwe saw how this had important consequences for the DCU, especially with the birth of the Absolute Universe. But how does Darkseid's death impact his story?
Ram V: It's the catalyst that triggers everything. I was going to say that the preview pages for the first issue literally dropped a few hours ago, and Darkseid's death is on the first page of this book. So, essentially, it has multiple consequences, what the death of such a being should be like, right? One of the things that happens is that Darkseid's death kind of causes the Source to make a prophecy for Metron, who is the Source's favorite New God and shit-stirrer extraordinaire.
Ram V: And so I think that sets off a sequence of events whose endings are perhaps known only to Metron, and then he sets off a bunch of machinations, providing unknown motivations for characters on planets, Earths, New Genesis, Apokolips, if you will. . And that forms the basis of the conflict in this story. And then on top of that, I also found it exciting to think that we know Darkseid as a big bad in the DCU. What if other people in the DCU also knew him as a big bad and were staying away from our part of the cosmos because Darkseid was the pillar that supported that side? And now that that pillar is gone, they say, “Well, this place is out of balance and I feel like we can intervene now without fear of what Darkseid might do.” The story's antagonists do not consider themselves gods. They see themselves as scavengers of the universe. Then they come in and say “Well, this place has lost its balance and needs to be wiped out and restarted.” And that kind of threat is coming to this book. So yes, the big antagonist and overall plot are triggered by Darkseid.
Evan, you and Ram have collaborated several times with Detective comics, Dawnrunnerhis series for Dark Horse. Talk to us about how to get involved with New Gods and what it means for you.
Evan Cagle: So Ram actually had to twist my arm. I was hoping to take a really long vacation after years of working on Dawnrunner. But, you know, I think it was probably halfway through Dawnrunner that Ram started talking about New Gods, like “You want to do this? This is going to be a thing. We're going to do this.” And that's how it happened. I was like, “But what about my vacation?” and Ram said “Well, you'll have, like, a week.”
Ram V: No, I said you have the rest of your life ahead of you.
Evan Cagle: (laughs) Yeah, something as dismissive as that. Then he had to twist my arm. But I think one of the things I like about working with Ram is that no matter how I feel about an initial proposal he gives me, or an initial idea he has, even if I can't see my way through it, or I don't see how I fit into the scheme of things, the moment I accept that as an eventuality, I start to see something like, “Oh, this is actually going to be really amazing.” I see exactly how I can add something to this and make it interesting, beautiful. Which doesn't mean I went in completely resistant, but yes, I wanted my vacation.
Ram V: Sometimes you can see what other people's work will look like before they can see it. Maybe because they are very close.
Evan Cagle: And I trust that you are that person. Yes, time and time again, you have been exactly where I was wary.
Ram, last time we spoke, you discussed fatherhood and how it relates to your story. I will say that I really enjoyed seeing Mister Miracle as an overworked father figure. It's very funny and provides a lot of lightness to the first edition, which was great. But I like that you don't just approach this story from the perspective of a father, but also that of a father's son. We have Orion playing a very important role in this first edition. Do you want to talk a little about these perspectives in your book, for both Mister Miracle and Orion?
Ram V: From the bigger picture of things, I think it's fascinating, because I articulated this yesterday while talking to someone about New Gods. And I said, “Look, all the great mythologies of the world are essentially about family, right? Yes, they're about planetary consequences and the birth of civilizations. But fundamentally, it's like parents and siblings and children and family helping family, family eating family.”. And so I wanted to approach the New Gods as contemporary mythology. And so it made perfect sense that the emotional conflict of the story depended entirely on this family dynamic. And obviously, fatherhood is something that was part of that dynamic, from the beginning with Kirby, right? What can you say about a father who is willing to sacrifice his own son for the promise of eternal peace and security? What can you say about a parent who doesn't care enough about a child to say “Great, I can send you away and everything will be fine. You'll become me in the future anyway.” And so I think these are all metaphors for the kind of relationships that we see in our own lives. And I think putting them in the context of the gods allows us to talk about more intimate things. Interestingly, as the scale increases, it becomes easier to talk about them rather than talking about them as personal conflicts, so to speak. Case in point, that page of Scott sort of struggling to change the baby's diaper for the first time, literally saying “Oh my God, it's all spraying!” is taken from my life.
Obviously, in addition to Mister Miracle, Big Barda, Orion, we have many New Gods in history. Highfather, Metron, Lightray. And I know the last time we talked, you mentioned wanting to delve into mythology.
Ram V: Even a new New God called Akala, who is right next to the High Father.
Do you want to talk a little about the New Gods you chose for your story? And Evan, what was it like updating, refining and putting your own spin on these characters?
Ram V: I always intended this to be a huge cast. I think with every book I've done, not just DC but creator-owned stuff, I always think, “Okay, this book is going to have something new to me that's just for me and not necessarily for the readers.” . And I don't even know if I discussed this with Evan. The challenge of this book for me was “Can I tell a story with a huge cast?” A Game of Thrones, a Dune, a contemporary mythology. There are at least 20-30 characters involved and as the series progresses, the cast will get even bigger. I think halfway through the series it clashes with the DCU and suddenly the Justice League is involved, and all these characters come in. I'm telling the story about intimate things like fatherhood, worrying about your own past traumas and how that affects the characters. So my challenge for this is “Can I tell a story with 50 characters that still feels intimate and allows you to personally invest in it?”
Evan Cagle: It's a little tricky, because there are times when I would like to take a bigger brush and erase more or add more. And a character is so established or the silhouette is so established that there's just no way to mess with it. And there are other times when a character is smaller-scale, and no one particularly cares if my interpretation of them is wildly different from anyone else's. I mean, as long as he's still, you know, within the bounds of what we consider this character. So it's a little complicated, but honestly, when we were doing a Scott and Barda page, one of the only 'police tape lines' I could get around any of the characters was Scott and Barda. But it turns out these are my favorite Kirby character designs in the entire pantheon, they're just remarkable. They are very, very good.
Evan Cagle: And so, yeah, there are times like that where it's like, “I wouldn't touch that even if it was okay.” Because I think it's perfect as it is, which kills me. I mean, there are so many moving parts in Barda. It has so many elements. It has so many details. And I would love to reduce it and make it easier to draw. But the simple fact is that when it's all drawn out, you're struck by the magnificence of the character's design.
Was the red line “Don't draw her shorter than Scott”? I mean, she he has be giant compared to him at all times, right?
Evan Cagle: (laughs) no, no, it was. It wasn't like that at all. It's more about making sure that characters who appear at the same time in other books stay the same. Obviously, of course, you want consistency. It wouldn't be good for Barda to look completely different than she does in Birds of Prey
Actually, that brings up a good point, Ram, because you're dealing with Barda at the same time she's become a big part of the Birds of Prey. And you have this element in the story about how she's so exhausted from dealing with the baby, from dealing with the Birds of Prey. What is Barda's role in this great story? You talked about fatherhood. Are we seeing an aspect of motherhood too?
Ram V: Barda's role is to bring Scott into action on some level, and we see that kind of action in issue two. I feel like he's a very sensitive, thin-skinned character. He perceives the world and its people and their conflicts quite intensely. And he can get a little bogged down in that, almost navel-gazing at his own situation. And sometimes you just need to drive a 16 Wheeler for it. And Barda is basically that 16 Wheeler like, “Get up off the floor, stop feeling sorry for yourself and go save the world.”
Scott and Barda are truly my favorite characters and I love this new role for them. I'm glad you're not injecting drama into the relationship and that you're progressing their relationship by giving them a child. There's a lot of reluctance to change characters that have been around for so long.
Ram V: I don't think they've had a little daughter in any continuity before and I think it will be a cool thing to work on. Also considering Barda's size and the fact that she has a little baby it's just hilarious when you see it on the pages, yes,
Evan Cagle: There's a lot of room for visual fun.
Evan, this book is truly beautiful. Do you want to talk a little about the creative process? As Ram, you just let Evan go crazy with it. Or are you very specific when it comes to details, settings, characters, etc?
Ram V: I don't really let Evan do anything. In fact, when I have specific ideas, they are stickman ideas. Like, it might take me three minutes to draw an entire page. Be like, “Here, this is what we have to do.” And then Evan has to look at it and pretend it makes some sense to him. But when it comes back, it's a great feeling to be able to go up to an artist and say, “Here's my weird kind of stick figure.” and boom, you have this amazing, mind-blowing 3D page in front of you. It's an absolute joy. But also, if I may say so, Evan, this isn't Evan's first comic book work, but it's definitely one of his first comic book works. I mean, obviously we've done a lot in Dawnrunner, but this is also Evan's first time in a monthly book, and that can have its challenges. And I feel like, at the very least, my contribution is, “Hey, how can we navigate this? How can we make things easier in some places?” But Evan probably knows more tricks of the trade than I do.
Evan Cagle: You did some really amazing tricks. I must say you gave me a lot of insights. No, it's true. This is the first time I have had to do an ongoing monthly series. So a lot of this is trial and error. And, you know, I think mistakes or errors, especially in terms of scheduling and timing, I think those things get worked out as you go along. And the working relationship that we had on Dawnrunner is at this point quite mutated, because we don't have the luxury of time like we did before. But luckily we got a little shorthand there. So yeah, I feel like the process at this point is pretty streamlined and getting better. But Ram also does himself a huge disservice, because I don't know if you've seen, but Ram really can draw. He talks about stick figures and triangular houses and everything else, but he's full of shit. He can, he can actually draw. So when he gives me an idea for a layout or spread or something, it's absolutely seaworthy. I can definitely see what's going on there because you really know how to draw.
We've heard from other creators about what's going on with All In and how this is a giant epic that DC is telling right now. What do you mean about how New Gods Does it fit in the All In?
Ram V: The New Gods was originally conceptualized three years before any talk of All In began. But I had a chance to talk about what I was doing on this book with Scott. And also, I think it might have been Jim Lee who came along and suggested, “Hey, if you guys make this adjustment, New Gods will kind of become central to the whole thing. And so, without too many spoilers, I'll say yes, Scott's journey and Orion, and the fact that the New Gods are directly in the DCU on Earth in the middle of this run, I would say that makes the New Gods an important part of what's going on in the DCU, as a sort of look into what's going on. put come, I would like to say that the New Gods are uniquely positioned as being the connective tissue between the Total Universe and the Absolute Universe. They are the only characters who stand outside the confluence point of duality, even if they don't. Don't you know, they are the only ones who have access to both universes.
New Gods #1 is available from DC Comics on December 18th.